Tim Davis, is the Co-Founder & President of Modular, an integrated, composable suite of tools that simplifies your AI infrastructure so your team can develop, deploy, and innovate faster. Modular is best known for developing Mojo, a new programming language that bridges the gap between research and production by combining the best of Python with systems and metaprogramming.
Repeat Entrepreneur and Product Leader. Tim helped build, found and scale large parts of Google’s AI infrastructure at Google Brain and Core Systems from APIs (TensorFlow), Compilers (XLA & MLIR) and runtimes for server (CPU/GPU/TPU) and TF Lite (Mobile/Micro/Web), Android ML & NNAPI, large model infrastructure & OSS for billions of users and devices. Loves running, building and scaling products to help people, and the world.
When did you initially discover coding, and what attracted you to it?
As a kid growing up in Australia, my dad brought home a Commodore 64C and gaming was what got me hooked – Boulder Dash, Maniac Mansion, Double Dragon – what a time to be alive. That computer introduced me to BASIC and hacking around with that was my first real introduction to programming. Things got more intense through High School and University where I used more traditional static languages for engineering courses, and over time I even dabbled all the way up to Javascript and VBA, before settling on Python for the vast majority of programming as the language of data science and AI. I wrote a bunch of code in my earlier startups but these days, of course, I utilize Mojo and the toolchain we have created around it.
For over 5 years you worked at Google as Senior Product Manager and Group Product Leader, where you helped to scale large parts of Google’s AI infrastructure at Google Brain. What did you learn from this experience?
People are what build world-changing technologies and products, and it is a devoted group of people bound by a larger vision that brings them to the world. Google is an incredible company, with amazing people, and I was fortunate to meet and work with many of the brightest minds in AI years ago when I moved to join the Brain team. The greatest lessons I learnt were to always focus on the user and progressively disclose complexity, to empower users to tell their unique stories to the world like fixing the Greater Barrier Reef or helping people like Jason the Drummer, and to attract and assemble a diverse mix of people to drive towards a common goal. In a massive company of very smart and talented people, this is much harder than you can imagine. Reflecting on my time there, it’s always the people you worked with that are truly memorable. I will always look back fondly and appreciate that many people took risks on me, and I’m enormously thankful they did, as many of those risks encouraged me to be a better leader and person, to dive deep and truly understand AI systems. It truly made me realize the profound power AI has to impact the world, and this was the very reason I had the inspiration and courage to leave and co-found Modular.
Can you share the genesis story behind Modular?
Chris and I met at Google and shipped many influential technologies that have significantly impacted the world of AI today. However, we felt AI was being held back by overly complex and fragmented infrastructure that we witnessed first hand deploying large workloads to billions of users. We were motivated by a desire to accelerate the impact of AI on the world by lifting the industry towards production-quality AI software so we, as a global society, can have a greater impact on how we live. One can’t help but wonder how many problems AI can help solve, how many illnesses cured, how much more productive we can become as a species, to further our existence for future generations, by increasing the penetration of this incredible technology.
Having worked together for years on large scale critical AI infrastructure – we saw the enormous developer pain first hand – “why can’t things just work”? For the world to adopt and discover the enormous transformative nature of AI, we need software and developer infrastructure that scales from research to production, and is highly accessible. This will enable us to unlock the next way of scientific discoveries – of which AI will be critical – and is a grand engineering challenge. With this motivating background, we developed an intrinsic belief that we could set out to build a new approach for AI infrastructure, and empower developers everywhere to use AI to help make the world a better place. We are also very fortunate to have many people join us on this journey, and we have the world’s best AI infrastructure team as a result.
Can you discuss how the Mojo programming language was initially built for your own team?
Modular’s vision is to enable AI to be used by anyone, anywhere. Everything we do at Modular is focused on that goal, and we walk backwards from that in the way we build out our products and our technology. In this light, our own developer velocity is what matters to us firstly, and having built so much of the existing AI infrastructure for the world – we needed to carefully consider what would enable our team to move faster. We have lived through the two-world language problem in AI – where researchers live in Python, and production and hardware engineers live in C++ – and we had no choice but to either barrel down that road, or rethink the approach entirely. We chose the latter. There was a clear need to solve this problem, but many different ways to solve it – we approached it with our strong belief of meeting the ecosystem where it is today, and enabling a simpler lift into the future. Our team bears the scars of software migration at large scale, and we didn’t want a repeat of that. We also realized that there is no language today, in our opinion, that can solve all the challenges we are attempting to solve for AI and so we undertook a first principles approach, and Mojo was born.
How does Mojo enable seamless scaling and portability across many types of hardware?
Chris, myself and our team at Google (many at Modular) helped bring MLIR into the world years ago – with the goal to help the global community solve real challenges by enabling AI models to be consistently represented and executed on any type of hardware. MLIR is a new type of open-source compiler infrastructure that has been adopted at scale, and is rapidly becoming the new standard for building compilers through LLVM. Given our team’s history in creating this infrastructure, it’s natural that we utilize it heavily at Modular and this underpins our state of the art approach in developing new AI infrastructure for the world. Critically, while MLIR is now being fast adopted, Mojo is the first language that really takes the power of MLIR and exposes it to developers in a unique and accessible way. This means it scales from Python developers who are writing applications, to Performance engineers who are deploying high performance code, to hardware engineers who are writing very low level system code for their unique hardware.
References to Mojo claim that it’s basically Python++, with the accessibility of Python and the high performance of C. Is this a gross oversimplification? How would you describe it?
Mojo should feel very familiar to any Python programmer, as it shares Python’s syntax. But there are a few important differences that you’ll see as one ports a simple Python program to Mojo, including that it will just work out of the box. One of our core goals for Mojo is to provide a superset of Python – that is, to make Mojo compatible with existing Python programs – and to embrace the CPython implementation for long-tail ecosystem support. Then enable you to slowly augment your code and replace non-performing parts with Mojo’s lower-level features to explicitly manage memory, add types, utilize autotuning and many other aspects to get the performance of C or better! We feel Mojo gives you get the best of both worlds and you don’t have to write, and rewrite, your algorithms in multiple languages. We appreciate Python++ is an enormous goal, and will be a multi-year endeavor, but we are committed to making it reality and enabling our legendary community of more than 140K+ developers to help us build the future together.
In a recent keynote it was showcased that Mojo is 35,000x faster than Python, how was this speed calculated?
It’s actually 68,000x now! But let’s recognize that it’s just a single program in Mandelbrot – you can go and read a series of three blog posts on how we achieved this – here, here and here. Of course, we’ve been doing this a long time and we know that performance games aren’t what drive language adoption (despite them being fun!) – it’s developer velocity, language usability, high quality toolchains & documentation, and a community utilizing the infrastructure to invent and build in ways we can’t even imagine. We are tool builders, and our goal is to empower the world to use our tools, to create amazing products and solve important problems. If we focus on our larger goal, it’s actually to create a language that meets you where you are today and then lifts you easily to a better world. Mojo enables you to have a highly performant, usable, statically typed and portable language that seamlessly integrates with your existing Python code – giving you the best of both worlds. It enables you to realize the true power of the hardware with multithreading and parallelization in ways that raw Python today can not – unlocking the global developer community to have a single language that scales from top to bottom.
Mojo’s magic is its ability to unify programming languages with one set of tools, why Is this so important?
Languages always succeed by the power of their ecosystems and the communities that form around them. We’ve been working with open source communities for a long time, and we are incredibly thoughtful towards engaging in the right way and ensuring that we do right by the community. We’re working incredibly hard to ship our infrastructure, but need time to scale out our team – so we won’t have all the answers immediately, but we’ll get there. Stepping back, our goal is to lift the Python ecosystem by embracing the whole existing ecosystem, and we aren’t seeking to fracture it like so many other projects. Interoperability just makes it easier for the community to try our infrastructure, without having to rewrite all their code, and that matters a lot for AI.
Also, we have learnt so much from the development of AI infrastructure and tools over the last ten years. The existing monolithic systems are not easily extensible or generalizable outside of their initial domain target and the consequence is a hugely fragmented AI deployment industry with dozens of toolchains that carry different tradeoffs and limitations. These design patterns have slowed the pace of innovation by being less usable, less portable, and harder to scale.
The next-generation AI system needs to be production-quality and meet developers where they are. It must not require an expensive rewrite, re-architecting, or re-basing of user code. It must be natively multi-framework, multi-cloud, and multi-hardware. It needs to combine the best performance and efficiency with the best usability. This is the only way to reduce fragmentation and unlock the next generation of hardware, data, and algorithmic innovations.
Modular recently announced raising $100 million in new funding, led by General Catalyst and filled by existing investors GV (Google Ventures), SV Angel, Greylock, and Factory. What should we expect next?
This new capital will primarily be used to grow our team, hiring the best people in AI infrastructure, and continuing to meet the enormous commercial demand that we are seeing for our platform. Modverse, our community of well over 130K+ developers and 10K’s of enterprises, are all seeking our infrastructure – so we want to make sure we keep scaling and working hard to develop it for them, and deliver it to them. We hold ourselves to an incredibly high standard, and the products we ship are a reflection of who we are as a team, and who we become as a company. If you know anyone who is driven, who loves the boundary of software and hardware, and who wants to help see AI penetrate the world in a meaningful and positive way – send them our way.
What is your vision for the future of programming?
Programming should be a skill that everyone in society can develop and utilize. For many, the “idea” of programming instantly conjures a picture of a developer writing out complex low level code that requires heavy math and logic – but it doesn’t have to be perceived that way. Technology has always been a great productivity enabler for society, and by making programming more accessible and usable, we can empower more people to embrace it. Empowering people to automate repetitive processes and make their lives simpler is a powerful way to give people more time back.
And in Python, we already have a wonderful language that has stood the test of time – it’s the world’s most popular language, with an incredible community – but it also has limitations. I believe we have a huge opportunity to make it even more powerful, and to encourage more of the world to embrace its beauty and simplicity. As I said earlier, it’s about building products that have progressive disclosure of complexity – enabling high level abstractions, but scaling to incredibly low level ones as well. We are already witnessing a significant leap with AI models enabling progressive text-to-code translations – and these will only become more personalized over time – but behind this magical innovation is still a developer authoring and deploying code to power it. We’ve written about this in the past – AI will continue to unlock creativity and productivity across many programming languages, but I also believe Mojo will open the ecosystem aperture even further, empowering more accessibility, scalability and hardware portability to many more developers across the world.
To finish, AI will penetrate our lives in untold ways, and it will exist everywhere – so I hope Mojo catalyzes developers to go and solve the most important problems for humanity faster – no matter where they live in our world. I think that’s a future worth fighting for.
Thank you for the great interview, readers who wish to learn more should visit Modular.
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